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 Post subject: Re: Peppermint 4 on SSD
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:58 pm
Posts: 220
Location: Arizona, USA
skpatel73 wrote:
From what I understand from elsewhere, the relatime supercedes the noatime setting and has been the default in the kernel for a while, so nothing to be done there.

Thanks, for the confirmation!

Concerning 'realtime' vs 'noatime', you might want to study this article. ~emphasis added by VinDSL

In particular...
Quote:
Criticism of atime

Reading a file changes its atime eventually requiring a disk write, which has been criticized as it is inconsistent with a read only file system.

This behaviour can usually be disabled by adding the noatime mount option in /etc/fstab. Turning off atime updating breaks POSIX compliance, and some applications, such as mbox-driven "new mail" notifications,[1] and some file usage watching utilities, notably tmpwatch.

    Linux kernel developer Ingo Molnár called atime "perhaps the most stupid Unix design idea of all times,"

adding:

    "Think about this a bit: 'For every file that is read from the disk, let's do a ... write to the disk! And, for every file that is already cached and which we read from the cache ... do a write to the disk!'"

He further emphasized the performance impact thus:

    atime updates are by far the biggest I/O performance deficiency that Linux has today. Getting rid of atime updates would give us more everyday Linux performance than all the pagecache speedups of the past 10 years, _combined_.

File system cache may significantly reduce this activity to one disk write per cache flush.


Obviously, it's not a 'I/O' performance issue on SSDs, but it WILL prematurely kill your SSD with senseless 'writes'.

Personally, I say, "Off with its head!" Use 'noatime', e.g. just say NO to 'atime'... ;)

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 Post subject: Re: [SOLVED] Peppermint 4 on SSD
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:19 pm 
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I'd agree with noatime .. I even use nodiratime :)

if you have plenty of RAM, you could also limit your browser cache size and bung that on a ram drive.

Personally I set swappiness to 10, rather than default 60

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 Post subject: Re: [SOLVED] Peppermint 4 on SSD
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:35 pm 
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Wow....I hadn't really thought of it before, but yeah!! The (strict)atime is a huge hit to I/O performance and SSD life.

Relatime seems like a good compromise since it only updates the atime when the file is modified, but not when it is being read. That is a huge reduction in atime updates. Comparing relatime vs noatime, since relatime is only adding a few bytes to every file write, relatime should only add a fraction of a percent of write accesses versus noatime, but without breaking any underlying posix utilities.

I thought about going straight noatime, but the breaking of some of the Posix utilities is a bit worrisome. I will occasionally use mutt from a Perl script to send notification emails when the script is done, but I wouldn't be doing that kind of work on this machine anyway. On the other hand, it would be nice if I didn't have to think about scripts breaking if I do happen to run them on that computer for some reason.


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 Post subject: Re: [SOLVED] Peppermint 4 on SSD
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:11 pm 
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Location: Arizona, USA
I suppose it all depends on the intended usage.

I'm on my Ubu +1 desktop box right now (uptime 2hr 21min)...

Code:
vindsl@Zuul:~$ ls -lu
total 12256
drwxrwxrwx 94 vindsl vindsl     4096 Dec 28 09:56 0
-rw-rw-r--  1 vindsl vindsl    20542 Jan  4 10:40 BAD.bck
-rwxrwxr-x  1 vindsl vindsl      327 Jan  4 10:40 Banshee -Preloader.desktop.desktop
-rw-------  1 vindsl vindsl    76007 Jan  4 10:40 bookmarks.html
-rw-rw-r--  1 vindsl vindsl    29718 Jan  4 10:40 compiz-default.profile
-rw-rw-r--  1 vindsl vindsl       22 Nov  1 21:46 conky-scripts.zip
drwxr-xr-x  2 vindsl vindsl     4096 Dec 28 09:56 conky_weather
drwxr-xr-x  2 vindsl vindsl     4096 Dec 28 09:56 conky_wunderground2
drwx------  5 vindsl vindsl     4096 Dec 28 09:55 dash-to-dock-master
-rw-rw-r--  1 vindsl vindsl    62897 Nov  1 21:46 Data-Dump-1.txt
drwxr-xr-x  2 vindsl vindsl     4096 Jan  4 08:30 Desktop
drwxr-xr-x 25 vindsl vindsl    16384 Jan  2 17:43 Documents
drwxr-xr-x 66 vindsl vindsl    12288 Dec 30 19:08 Downloads
drwx------ 13 vindsl vindsl     4096 Jan  2 17:35 Dropbox
drwx------  2 vindsl vindsl     4096 Dec 28 09:56 efax-gtk-server
-rw-r--r--  1 vindsl vindsl      179 Jan  4 10:40 examples.desktop
drwx------  2 vindsl vindsl     4096 Dec 28 09:56 faxin
drwx------  2 vindsl vindsl     4096 Dec 28 09:55 faxout
drwx------  2 vindsl vindsl     4096 Dec 28 09:56 faxsent
drwx------  9 vindsl vindsl     4096 Dec 28 09:56 gnome-shell-extensions-3.8.1
-rw-rw-r--  1 vindsl vindsl    63646 Dec 24 14:57 kmart-boost-order.pdf
-rwxrwxrwx  1 vindsl vindsl     6220 Nov  1 21:46 manifest.xml
drwx------  2 vindsl vindsl     4096 Dec 28 09:56 Media Cache
drwxr-xr-x 17 vindsl vindsl     4096 Jan  4 08:44 Music
-rw-rw-r--  1 vindsl vindsl     4049 Nov  1 21:46 mylog.txt
-rw-rw-r--  1 vindsl vindsl    53868 Dec 24 14:57 output.pdf
-rw-rw-r--  1 vindsl vindsl        0 Nov  1 21:46 Permissions
drwxrwxr-x  9 vindsl vindsl     4096 Jan  4 08:31 Pictures
drwxr-xr-x 13 vindsl vindsl     4096 Dec 28 09:56 Podcasts
-rw-rw-r--  1 vindsl vindsl      462 Nov  1 21:46 PodFeeds.txt
drwxr-xr-x  3 vindsl vindsl     4096 Dec 28 09:56 Public
drwxr-xr-x  2 vindsl vindsl     4096 Dec 28 09:56 sources.list.d
drwxrwxr-x  2 vindsl vindsl     4096 Dec 28 09:56 src
-rw-rw-r--  1 vindsl vindsl       27 Jan  4 10:40 sudo
drwxr-xr-x  2 vindsl vindsl     4096 Jan  2 04:04 Templates
drwxr-xr-x  3 vindsl vindsl     4096 Dec 28 09:55 ubuntu-meta-1.304
-rw-r--r--  1 vindsl vindsl     1589 Jan  4 10:40 ubuntu-meta_1.304.dsc
-rw-r--r--  1 vindsl vindsl    47038 Nov  1 21:46 ubuntu-meta_1.304.tar.gz
drwxrwxr-x  4 vindsl vindsl     4096 Jan  4 08:31 Ubuntu One
drwxrwxr-x  2 vindsl vindsl     4096 Dec 28 09:55 unityshell
drwxr-xr-x  2 vindsl vindsl     4096 Dec 28 09:56 Videos
-rw-rw-r--  1 vindsl vindsl     4758 Nov  1 21:46 vindsl-conky-conkywx-scripts.zip
-rw-rw-r--  1 vindsl vindsl 11994797 Nov  1 21:46 vindsl-howto-add-lxpanel-shutdown.ogv.zip
drwxrwxr-x  2 vindsl vindsl     4096 Dec 28 09:55 Wallpapers
-rw-rw-r--  1 vindsl vindsl     1907 Nov  1 21:46 whatever.txt
-rw-rw-r--  1 vindsl vindsl     1573 Jan  4 10:40 xorg.bksp
vindsl@Zuul:~$


I don't see any deal breakers in there -- certainly nothing that would cause a race condition, if 'atime' was disabled. I think I'll try 'noatime' on this machine, too (Ubu 14.04 HDD install), to see if it gets janky. Might affect my fax server -- don't know until I test it, eh what?

My web server -- 2,000 miles away in Atlanta -- is a different matter. I don't want to remotely put Humpty Dumpty back together again. LoL!

My Peppermint Four Re-Spin powered Dell ATG D630 w/SSD (MIL-STD-810F spec) needs to bullet-proof. I don't want to be stuck somewhere on a business trip with a puked drive, so durability is paramount.

I've been using my D630 several times a day -- cycling it on n' off -- moving it around into different environments, and so forth and so on -- been 100% reliable, so far, using 'noatime'.

Flies like the wind, too, BTW. The devs knocked_it_out_of_the_ballpark on this release. :)

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